Introduction

Jacqui 0:26

Welcome teacher and theologian Dr Nancy Dawson . In our last episode , we explored the profound significance of biblical genealogies and how they illuminate God's grand narrative throughout history . Today we're continuing our journey with Dr Dawson . Her keen analytical skills and insightful approach to researching biblical genealogies have made her a respected voice in biblical scholarship . Her new book , All the Genealogies in the Bible , is a testament to her meticulous research and dedication to unveiling the intricate details of scripture . In this episode we'll uncover the aha moments Dr Dawson experienced in her studies and gained valuable insights into the inclusion of Gentiles in the family of God . Her discoveries promised to deepen our understanding of the Bible . So , whether you're on a walk , commuting or just taking a break , get ready to be inspired as we continue this enlightening discussion with Dr Nancy Dawson . Well , welcome everyone . I'm your host , Jacqui Adewole , and this is the Bible Basics Podcast where , weekly , we break down the Bible into understandable , bite-sized chunks .

Format of Genealogies

Jacqui 2:07

We start with Nancy answering a question I had about the format of genealogies or how they look in the Bible . Here's her response .

Dr. Dawson 2:19

The genealogies basically come in like two formats . One is a long linear list of names . It's typically this father , son , father son . But the genealogies that form more of a segmented branch , it's called segmented genealogies . That shows like one father , sometimes the father and the mother and then the offspring . Like one father , sometimes the father and the mother and then the offspring . So they may have three or four children , and then the lineages are traced for each child down from there and then they branch off sometimes . So I totally understand and empathize as a person that's read through scripture .

Dr. Dawson 3:10

You can get so lost with these names and it's frustrating and there's a complexity to them . Sometimes one person has two different names or even three different names . Person has two different names or even three different names and they can be found . Even I found in the same chapter of like Chronicles and you're like , oh my gosh , why can't they just stick with the one name ? And so I could tell by the genealogical information and the tracing of that lineage that that is the same person , even though they have different names . And sometimes different people have the same name . So yeah , so the confusion is now . You know we've banished all the confusion with these lineages . You know we've banished all the confusion with these lineages .

Dr Dawson's Ahas

Jacqui 4:06

I love that Were there any ahas that came out of your study of these genealogies about any particular lineage or person or anything like that .

Dr. Dawson 4:21

Well , I would say just a couple of things . One aha is that God is telling you something about himself . And second , he's telling you something about his people . So he's telling you that there's a passage in Deuteronomy that says the Lord is described as the God of your ancestors . So we need to know who those ancestors are . And then there's another passage in Deuteronomy , in Deuteronomy 32: 9 , that says the Lord's portion is his people . Oh my gosh , that means we are his ultimate inheritance . Because we're saying , you know , in new testament we're saying well , I want to be an heir of the promise , I want to have a spiritual inheritance . In that Old Testament verse it's telling you that we are his inheritance . It's so magnificent , and so that's an aha moment , that he's telling you something about himself , his relationship to his people .

Dr. Dawson 5:37

And then I guess , if I had one , maybe one or two charts , one thing was that , as I did all the Old Testament charts , I could tell that all of these are patrilineal descent . And I was like , oh my gosh what , we should have some women in there . And we do have women . But scripture does not trace matrilineal descent . It's through the father , it's even if it's a woman , it's through her father or the man's father . So that's patrilineal descent , and and . And that was a key to understanding what was going on with Jesus' genealogy . It's in two places , but I knew both of them were going to be tracing the patrilineal , ancestral descent of Jesus not through his mother Mary , but through Joseph , his earthly father . Obviously his heavenly father is his real father , but his earthly father , joseph . So that was one thing , and then I guess another aha was , I could be reading along in Genesis and then I would just sort of do my little drafting of the family trees and then they would just sort of peter out and I was like , oh , oh , you know that must be the end . But then I would continue and then it might pick up again in Samuel or end up in , you know , say more information in Chronicles , and then I would say , well , some of those people that were descendants of the people back in Genesis , they end up going into Babylonian exile and then Ezra or Nehemiah will say , oh well , this family came back to Jerusalem and so I could trace the original family and then these descendants through different periods of time you know as going going , you know forward , and I thought that was really great .

Dr. Dawson 7:50

One person in particular . I don't think this has ever been noticed that I know of . When I got to Chronicles Chronicles , chapters one through nine is so dense . It's , you know , the microchip of genealogies . It has so many names in every word of every sentence , of every paragraph and pericope . So I saw where there was this great digression . And there is a person's genealogy that is sort of hidden , and I don't mean that it's secret , but just sort of like . I don't think anybody noticed it . It's a lineage about 50 names long and this guy at the end , his name is Elishema and he was a scribe under one of the kings just before they go into exile . And that guy is telling you his heritage was important and I feel like he was the chronicler , he was the one that was taking all of these genealogical records and he is the one that is assembling them , and so he's this great person . But he does not say I am ela , the chronicler of first and second , but he tells you his status by his genealogy .

Gentiles in the Family of God

Dr. Dawson 9:33

So you know that's an aha .

Jacqui 9:36

That's interesting . I had an aha too , I understand , about Gentiles being engrafted into the family of God and somehow in my mind , I mean , and I knew there were Gentiles , and particularly women , in Jesus's genealogy , but still the whole idea of Gentiles coming in , I felt like that was New Testament mostly , right , right , right , mostly . So I , just as I was particularly going through the book and looking at the genealogies and looking at some of your commentaries , I came across Caleb . Caleb who was one of the spies that went into Canaan and came out with Joshua saying oh , we can do this and you know it . Just , there's an assumption that he , along with everybody else , was an Israelite . I didn't think about how many non-Israelites were able to become part of the family of God , in this case through marriage .

Dr. Dawson 10:32

Yes , yes .

Jacqui 10:34

It's very important . I was surprised about that . We've been talking a lot about context , the importance of understanding what was going on in whatever you're reading , whatever scripture you're reading historical context , cultural context and this added some shown some light on cultural context about how these Gentiles were able to come into the family of God , even back then .

Dr. Dawson 11:02

Gentiles were able to come into the family of God even back then . Yes , I'm glad you bring out that point because you see it all along , but it's not like front and center . I mean , you see it when Abraham circumcises all of his family , well , these are , you know , slaves as well as you know people that came along with him from Mesopotamia and came into Canaan with him . But you see Kenites , you see Kenizzites , you see some Canaanites , you see somebody like Ruth the Moabite , and these are pivotal people . And so you think , well , they are not part of this covenant family . And in fact , with the Moabites because their ancestral origin was sort of an issue with incest , Lot and his daughter having relations , it's like , wow , that is not a good way to get a whole new line going . But you see that the Moabites and the Ammonites , they were excluded from worship . But in God's grace , thank goodness , we have God's grace to allow us all .

Dr. Dawson 12:15

You see somebody like Ruth the Moabite . Or you see somebody like Rahab the Canaanite . And so , yes , that grafting begins way back in Old Testament and then continues more in New . In fact , in New Testament it says you know , if you're an unbeliever , even though you might be ethnically of a Jew If you do not believe in Jesus . That is . The final arbiter of being in the family of faith is whether you believe in Christ . It's not our ethnicity or our racial heritage , even it's that you are a believer and that is the final . It puts everyone at the foot of the cross , the same and yes yes , nancy , I had to .

Jacqui 13:20

I had this , had to open my book because I have this highlighted and I just want to read this to the listeners . This is out of the . This is part of the introduction to the book , and Nancy says Thus the ultimate covenant family of God transcends bloodline , ethnicity , gender and national , religious and cultural backgrounds . Faith in Christ becomes the final arbiter for identity , inclusion and security in the kingdom of God . There is neither Jew nor Gentile . There you go to the promise .

Dr. Dawson 14:14

There you go , that's falling words , right there that are . You know that Galatians 3 passage , it tells you that . It's very clear we are Abraham's seed , the intention of what was those promises to Abraham , and I

Bible Study Resources

Dr. Dawson 14:29

really like that you're pointing your listeners to the cultural and historical context of scripture . You know , when I study I keep an atlas around . Oftentimes place names are something that you'll find like a person interesting the name Bethlehem . The other name that Micah explains is called Bethlehem Ephrathah or Bethlehem Ephrathah and that is a woman and so that is a place name . Bethlehem is a place name that originates from a woman .

Dr. Dawson 15:17

The other things , culturally , you know you're seeing the societal status . There is a hierarchy that's going on . You're seeing different time periods and certain genealogies , kind of transition , like something like in Ruth , the very end of the book of Ruth . You know that story of Ruth and Naomi and Elimelech and then Ruth's husband , and all of that occurs at the end of the time of the judges , of the judges . But that genealogy functions to transition to the time of the kings , because ruth and boaz are going to be the great grandparents , great , great grandparents of king david and so , um , um , you'll have different functions sometimes .

Dr. Dawson 16:06

so there's a structure of genealogies , there's a function of them . Sometimes they seem to be a little bit at odds with one another , but it's just because they're functioning different . Like this is especially true in the tribe of Saul . Sometimes you're talking about his ancestors and descendants . Sometimes they're talking about , like , the military complement within that tribe . Sometimes they'll tell you about , well , these Saulite descendants ended up living in this particular area around Jerusalem or near Jerusalem , and so they kind of can be a little bit confusing , but it's because they are having different functions .

Dr. Dawson 16:57

Then , sometimes , when you're tracing descendants , one of those aha moments was I was doing Moses and Aaron and Miriam brothers , mary and a sister , and what you find is they're from the tribe of Levi and Moses' descendants . Of course , that's all , even before they go into the promised land . Remember , he brings them out of exile in Egypt before they go into the promised land . But his descendants are counted as part of the tribe of Levi and they become these Levitical servants in Solomon's temple , which is , you know , that's like a thousand years later . You know , because Moses we're talking about , you know , 1400 or earlier , slightly earlier , and then the temple isn't built until 966 , not a thousand years , more like 500 years . So sometimes genealogies are telling you kind of the rest of the story these people have functions over time .

Dr. Dawson 18:15

Sometimes the very end of a genealogy , the final person in the genealogy will tell you something about when that genealogy was written down , because they're the last terminus figure and so they'll kind of tell you well , this is the author and this is when he's the last person . If they're living in , you know , 444, . Well , that's kind of when that book or that portion of that book was written down . So it's wonderful that you're stressing biblical interpretation . You know you read what does this mean and how does it apply to me . But you have to kind of know these other running ground rules if you will , and that means you need to have lots of resources , just like you do . I can see your bookshelves behind you . Just start with some good commentaries , a good atlas , a good Bible dictionary and some good different Bibles and some good different Bibles .

Jacqui 19:31

Thank you , dr Dawson , and thank you , listeners , for joining us for part two of our conversation on Bible genealogies . We've gained some valuable insights into the inclusions of Gentiles into the family of God , of Gentiles into the family of God , how we can make use of genealogies in terms of understanding historical or cultural context , and even some encouragement regarding our approach to Bible study , of observing , interpreting and then application and the use of great extra biblical resources . So in our next episode , we'll conclude our conversation with Dr Dawson by exploring the significance of the genealogy of Jesus as presented in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke For new Bible readers . This will be an especially enriching discussion . For new Bible readers , this will be an especially enriching discussion , so stay tuned and keep your curiosity sparked until next time .

Jacqui 20:37

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